Q & A
Sign In to participate

Coil corrosion

12/19/2021 21:49
FIRSTLAST
I use Ford E-350 for business. Lost power, bad backfires a couple days back. Engine is 351 Windsor, easy to service. In working through the issue, discovered it was coil to distributor wire. It literally split in two, yet I was running 55 mph to get it to a parking spot back at my business. So maybe a thread held on that long. Now to the question, why did I get corrosion on the coil post. As I borrowed parts off my retired van very close to this one, I saw similar corrosion on that coil post. Rest of wire set seems quite good, and I borrowed the better ignition wire off other van. I never got the older one running after a smelly emissions performance and starving / dying pattern. It would randomly refuse to start at full hot condition, like if the computer had issues. Think it had fuel pressure at the rail (fuel injected). Possibly the little bit of corrosion on coil and coil lead wire was a factor? Plugs were perfect, re-gapped and swapped the coil from the older van. Finish it tomorrow.
12/20/2021 20:53
ASHLEY P
Ford EEC-IV computers are a difficult (IMO) to diagnose. Compared to OBDII computers, they're harder to communicate with and provide less info. For a hot restart issue, add starting fluid to intake to see if the engine runs briefly. If so, fuel supply/injection needs to be tested. If engine does NOT run briefly on starting fluid, check spark. Intermittent hot spark failure can be coil, ignition module, or TFI pickup failure. Good luck.
12/22/2021 23:38
FIRSTLAST
Helpful. Had to go learn about TFI. Looks like I can pull distributor, setup a test with fuel relay removed and coil feed wire off. Watch for spark on a plug I remove for test purposes. Couple things I may have wrong on that setup, need to review the youtube again.
12/23/2021 09:09
ASHLEY P
To test the distributor: just get a new distributor and wire it up, ground it to the engine, and rotate it by hand (with key on) to see if ignition coil fires. (You don't have to take the old one out.)
12/23/2021 15:24
FIRSTLAST
Motor is at its end with that vehicle, but it was strong runner and I have other engines not so good. Like to diagnose the problem so can do a swap if it was just ignition. The steering box at frame rail was down to steel about to completely fail. So I parked it for good. Cost of Iowa salt. You'll never know the cost to vehicle life that road salt takes and the fleet of vehicles you are compelled to own. Ford had stupid design, all frames fail because of how they attached the body to frame.
01/04/2022 19:28
FIRSTLAST
Coil wire had corroded. Swapped coil and lead wire, it runs. Now I am going through and testing for a slipped timing belt. So far, compression test shows all I'm the 150 to 160 area. Worst 150, best 165. Next, tried to setup timing test. Haven't done this engine in long while. A Shunt is to be removed. Did find and disconnect. Next want 10 BTDC. Marked, buy it was looking around 25 BTDC with shunt in. Need a better mark. Can anyone tell me about how many degrees represent 1 notch slip of a belt? I have to mark the wheel better, my old trusty craftsman T.L. had a switch issue Trying out a harbor freight one with degee wheel set on 0.
01/05/2022 09:08
ASHLEY P
There is no timing belt on a 351 Ford. Timing chain. No idea on the timing marks. I would have tested compression by simply listening to the engine crank over. I would set the timing by getting it close and driving it.
01/05/2022 10:04
ASHLEY P
Common sense said this 2 year ago. Are you still a mask mandate commie?
01/05/2022 10:33
FIRSTLAST
N95 good. I wear double cloth, stay 10 foot away. It's worked 2.5 years. I only wear when "near" people, like inside a store. Currently working a project at A Walmart. Starting Friday, I work a tradeshow booth, 10000 visitors in a non Covid year. Probably be lucky to see 5000 this year. If it's in the air, and we know it is, I will get my dosing in.
01/05/2022 11:27
ASHLEY P
But why the forcing of nearly useless masks by _____ ? (Insert "mainstream media" or "leftists" or " Democrats" in the blank) Are they stupid?
01/05/2022 14:11
FIRSTLAST
Underwear is useless. Still use it. Why? The Scots and Indians had a better way? OH YEAH, cause it's not all about ME!
01/05/2022 15:30
ASHLEY P
What do you mean? If a mask DOES work, it doesn't matter if nobody else wears one. Same logic for the "vaccine". If the vaccine really worked, why would any vaccinated person fear an unvaccinated person? Logic > lies about Covid. Logic > fear. Wake up, Firstlast.
01/05/2022 16:33
ASHLEY P
Come on, man! Let's Go Brandon! More votes than Obama? Whatever. *facepalm*
01/07/2022 00:55
FIRSTLAST
try and focus. The car needs some fixing. Affecting me every single day as we car share for now. Worked the timing, pulled shunt, and it is pretty close, about 12 BTDC. Tested vacuum, 16 to 17, so pretty ideal. Compression pretty solid for a older motor. Checked free play in the crank rotation while studying the rotor on the distributor. There is only slight play, very very slight in the timing chain. So I am on to other problems. I had just bought first full tank in long while from a Murphy, used the ethanol blend. I always ran 100% non ethanol as a rule in this vehicle. Doubt that. The clue in the failed main wire from coil to dist, is pointing me to swap plugs and wires. Old motor, but thinking the MSD Street Fire set is worth the money. Plugs only slightly rounded on tips, but the performance even after all this fooling around, is pretty terrible . It is clearly missing and stumbling on any kind of work, like hill at 55 mph. There is even a slight hesitation at idle. Full pedal, you really know it. This E-350 was dang quick off the line just a month back. Hard to beat me off the changing lights. Next, I would need to pull fuel pressure, and go to the pump and filter. Any useable advice, no Brandon jokes please.
01/07/2022 00:58
FIRSTLAST
Forgot, doing this emergency repair work at -4 plus wind chill here. So I had to set up the blast big shop kerosene heater, and overwhelm the bitter cold. Man, wrenching outside sucks big time.
01/07/2022 09:16
ASHLEY P
Lyin' Biden lied. He used a straw man argument and lied about voting....both to make his "election" look legitimate. WHY does he need to do that?????? He's almost as fake as pro wrestling....
01/07/2022 09:29
ASHLEY P
Go back to my first reply in this topic. It likely would be difficult for me to fix that truck if the truck were here in my bay. There's not a way for me to fix it over the keyboard. (BTW, Brandon is no joke. It's a serious problem. lol)
01/07/2022 10:09
ASHLEY P
If you suspect plug wires, test them at night. With engine running, mist water onto the wires. Arcing is bad. Take a fuel sample. I found gas in a diesel yesterday. Added oil to the fuel filter housing and it fired right up.
01/07/2022 10:22
ASHLEY P
I've given you an answer, try answering any of my questions to you.
01/07/2022 10:55
ASHLEY P
Try reading the comment section, and notice how the "dislike" button is disabled. Bias is being called out. MASSES of people do NOT believe the lies from Biden and his supporters in mass media.
01/11/2022 11:04
ASHLEY P
As an example of my frustrations with old Ford EEC computer V8s, today I'm looking at a 1995 E350, 351W. I had the scanner enable the idle speed control function on the truck. It's idling at about 2500 rpm, yet the computer says "idle speed correct".
01/12/2022 00:23
FIRSTLAST
I have something more complex going on with this one. There is just no spark regulation. Did a road trip, it was tough. Suspect crank sensor, or ignition module, but need to run some tests, and use a scope to establish which one is failing. As I thought about this, it occurred that my 93 which had similar gassy odor and horrible running / power before I parked it, had a very similar final day. Another 351 windsor van. Now I'd like to solve this one, see if I can apply info. to the older one. I let these things beat me instead of analytical problem solving. Time to fix that, so I bought an analyzer.
01/12/2022 17:10
FIRSTLAST
What analyzer? Snapon?
01/13/2022 09:13
ASHLEY P
SnapOn. Google Thick Film Ignition and see if your vehicle has that. If there's a remote module, replace it with a KNOWN GOOD one. A "new" part is not KNOWN GOOD.
01/13/2022 21:42
FIRSTLAST
I have a Ford OBD1 Code reader, so best see if it tells me any code. TFI Sounds like the right track. Analyzer should come tomorrow. I have a donor vehicle, can try a swap.
02/05/2022 23:34
FIRSTLAST
Some update info on this winter repair. I only acvzncd when my hands can work bare under the tangled web of this limited access bay. Could use a suggestion on the snap on scope range settings for tomorrow. Else, its on a YouTube if I can find the right scanner danner video. Spark solid, did a wire swap anyway as the ignition wire had corroded into two pieces,, and had two wire types mixed temporarily. Only ignition was odd. Then I found a torn boot on plug with white residue indicating shorting. So that Belden set is gone and a Motorcraft set with nice shiny fittings is on. Then was setting up a fuel pressure test and my entire vacuum feed was disconnected at a rotted elbow. Replaced every piece. Was sure it would help, but nothing improved. So next, I will be testing 3 or 4 inputs on scope: PIP, ICM, ECM. See if I can adjust to where some issue reveals. It takes about 10 min run time, or a load like a little hill climb to have a bad miss. Still have not got a fuel pressure, but scope will help me see if ignition caused. No compression or timing issue, all right in line. Always starts, never dies. Completely operational, have run this couple hundred miles, but not again, need core issue found.
02/06/2022 13:35
ASHLEY P
Sir, I hope you can fix it. Again I say: Fords of those type are difficult to fix. Your approach is making it more difficult. I've fixed plenty of them without ever scoping anything. Figure out which cylinder(s) are missing.
02/06/2022 22:08
FIRSTLAST
A bunch are missing, which would be easily seen on the scope. Now, need a ammeter clamp so I can track the ignition coil current in relation to the PIP sender. But a key symptom occurred to me today. No codes, using Ford OBD1 detector. So I have a cap and rotor issue, doubtful, or I have no computer. Having a couple of these exact vans, engines, I got the ECM no. and went hunting for same one. I pulled one from a known good running van, and got it swapped for the test. I don't know how to use my scope yet and there is a learning curve. It is new to me. Not getting display yet, so have connection issues, or lacking a ground.
02/07/2022 09:17
ASHLEY P
Difficult and expensive are your methods. Time and money are cheap for you? You don't "need" to check the amperage to the ignition coil....at least I don't think you do. I've been fixing cars for about 30 years and have never had to do that.
02/07/2022 12:16
FIRSTLAST
It would show you that the burst is dropping on a specific pattern occuring every 8 fires, and that short burst would be about 2 cycles behind the missing spark plug your scope would reveal. The locator ring on the distributor references this pattern once every 8 fires, and so the pattern will help narrow down which issue is at fault. I do know the ECM has not made any difference, and I have a known good ICM and distributor with a couple warm days coming up. Some swaps and LED test light may tell me something about where I am getting a normal signal and where missing. I am up against short hours to service this. My fingers can't do the work when it is around freezing. Used to be able to handle the cold better. Can't wait for March.
02/07/2022 12:18
FIRSTLAST
in depth explanation about trouble shooting the not obvious causes of the mis fire.
02/07/2022 14:43
ASHLEY P
Respectfully, it is not I who needs a tutorial.
02/07/2022 23:16
FIRSTLAST
He is a great teacher. But he does go through the breakdown of basic test light checks and manual tests thoroughly so you get the fundamentals. It's a little hard when you haven't done auto school. My degree is ICAR cert. Focus on other aspects. I shared the link not to teach, bit so you saw the benefit of those two scope tests to reveal the issue causing the miss. Elusive for certain. Would have thought a water mist would have made some of this more simple. But it proves to be capacitor or resistor electronic component failure component. Only have 3 potential contributors, 1 is eliminated.
02/08/2022 09:10
ASHLEY P
What are the "3 potential contributors"? Contributing for what?
02/08/2022 20:30
FIRSTLAST
ECM (no), ICM, PIP or commutation in distrulibutor. Gotcazswap on xap and rotor, despite having mist tested. No change. Unfortunately, my backup 95 ICM I'd gray while my 95 with the miss is black, so cannotcswap and rest. Odd how Ford works. Supposed to have moved off the gray abd started the black in 1993, but both are in the cross guides at the auto stores for 95. So I got PIP on scope. HAL effect should be flat top, okay bottom, clean square shape. Bottom is flat, tops decidedly not. Highly pointed, short in duration. I would bet this distributor issue is all it, which is where you were suggesting. I can swap the good distributor in, provided a rebuild is manageable on old one, otherwise,just ordering one. If I pull Spout (base firing, no advance),it makes no difference in the performance. Still misses badly.
02/08/2022 20:41
FIRSTLAST
Lots of spell errors. Also re checked codes using OEM scan tool. Zero codes. Got the correct responses so it did read.
02/09/2022 20:04
FIRSTLAST
read image wrong, had my back probes in the wrong wires. My local college auto instructor caught that pretty fast, said that was a coil firing pattern, not the cam shaft position sensor. Now I pulled good data. At idle, very nice square HAL effect wave. As soon as a load is placed, the top is reduced, cuts down half way to a lower flat, then drops the voltage. Sounds like this may be the shape of a weak camshaft sensor, but I don't know enough about the wear on the timing ring. I have a video, if I can find out how to upload it, maybe youtube.
02/10/2022 09:09
ASHLEY P
Convoluted process you've got there.....
02/10/2022 16:33
ASHLEY P
I think there is evidence here that you and I do things differently. I just read where TVA is thinking about more nuclear power, with a "goal of net zero carbon emissions". If that's about global warming, I've got news for them: they're making heat with that atom splittin', carbon or not.
02/10/2022 23:56
FIRSTLAST
It's beyond basic LED test light. Too random, or at least repeating on multiple cylinders. Still short on ny tools. Need an inductive clamp to pull fuel system scope results, see which injector could be under performing. Upon much more time on samples, PIP has a good pattern, even repetitive form. Am unclear why spout is not matching up to PIP. They are not aligned on the voltage on or off. Cam sends signal to PIP, sends digital to ECM, which sends to ICM, then SPOUT returns signal to coil. Thise two cross and should align on the scope trace. Mine definitely does not. Also, if I pull spout, tge miss does not drop on the slightest. So none of that gives me any confidence I have anything to assign cause toward. Need the ammeter clamp to pull coil against the Spout and PIP. I found a ESI for $115. I see there are models rated to 60 A, others to 30A. Need to learn more. Can hurt scope, but my scope handles 200A no problem. I have a good distributor in the other van. Think I should try a swap, see if I am really chasing ghosts. It's a pain, they will not budge in the block. Like to know the trick to unstick an old distributor.
02/10/2022 23:58
FIRSTLAST
Beginning to see why people are so down on Snapon. Very flaky performance. Can't get a video to record. It says it did, but refuses to play back. Scope drops connection, a lot. Hard to do analysis on a 120 second stream.
02/11/2022 09:07
ASHLEY P
It takes good logic and good data to come to a good conclusion. I see how you roll.
02/11/2022 12:27
FIRSTLAST
I'm ordering gva TFI or ICM, don't know why those two terms get interchanged. Gut instinct that is why the patterns are off on PIP vs Spout going to tell the coil to fire. It matches on the index position, then goes whacky for the next 8 till next reference timing point. Could still be fuel, but I lose a week chasing down what I require.
02/11/2022 14:30
ASHLEY P
See my second reply in this topic. Start there. Compare old vs new.
02/11/2022 23:05
FIRSTLAST
you know I have a running vehicle that never failed to run, right? I can run a different distributor and see if I get a different scope result. That would be useful. I found that I have the black TFI on a donor 1995 van, it had a different engine but was same year. Ford uses their stuff across platforms, and engines. When it gets warmer, I can hook up and scope, see if my hunch on the not matching PIP and Spout is correct.
02/11/2022 23:13
FIRSTLAST
if running blacks out of neighborhoods so Trump can have opportunity zones isn't rascist, just what the heck is? Carson as the former HUD director, is supposed to be supporting the black population getting displaced by these opportunity zones. Ask the people in Obama's neighborhood zones South of the loop in Chicago what they think of his massive library. It is not helping them keep a basic housing they can afford. It is costing blocks of property to be re-developed. I want to hear the opinions of the workers at Mar Lago from Dominican Republic, or Honduras. What do they really think when a paycheck isn't hanging over their answer? The things he did to urban black and central American's are the most racist acts I have ever watched play out.
02/12/2022 17:24
ASHLEY P
LOL! And you've claimed Trump can't "functionally read". WAHAHA! You claim that "truth can be made up", that you "never lie", and that "all people lie". Readin', typin', and thinkin'....which are you failing?
02/12/2022 17:36
ASHLEY P
So "Trump can't functionally read". What do you think about the President who's mental capacity is OBVIOUSLY WAY less than it was several years ago? Let's Go Biased Media and it's follower Firstlast!
02/13/2022 11:32
FIRSTLAST
Actually, my exact words WEREN'T ALL LIE AND WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GODS GLORY. and that is 100% fact, there isn't a Saint alive or dead, all fall short. Humidity begins with trust in God's undeserved grace. You just cannot be a quasi churchy type (too far for even Trump desc.) when your entire existence is a fiction shaped around arrogance. There is no room in God's presence for a proud man. Trump could not even orient the Bible with the words upright when he used military in front of the cathedral to make his pitch for John Wayne Christianity. What a joke of a leader. Complete fictional joke.
02/13/2022 14:51
FIRSTLAST
on the diagnostic of a PIP, if the fuel pump whirrs upon KOEO, you have PIP signal. If no PIP, the relay won't work and engage the fuel pump. Does not take into account voltage, but in this case, on a scope, I see the high and low voltage during a long period, various load condtions. It never drops below threshold of around 9.5 to 10 V and tops at the altenator output around 13.8 V. The pattern is consistent, and it clips uniformly when I put a lot of load on the engine like a big hill climb. Know much about how that TFI responds to the PIP in a healthy engine?
02/14/2022 09:06
ASHLEY P
Your words were "make or concoct truth". Your words were "I've never lied, tell hard piecing truths".
02/14/2022 22:26
FIRSTLAST
Swapped to a different same type TFI today. No improvement in miss problem.
02/16/2022 23:20
FIRSTLAST
I keep coming back to the simple stuff. What if the fact that parts store thougth plugs looked fine, and that they passed a gap fire test OK, doesn't account for a load condition? What if the electrode is deteriorated inside? I did have a white residue on a torn boot on about number 2 cylinder. So changed to good motorcraft wires. And I had the failed in two coil wire on that prior set. The corosion was very bad on that coil connection, so I swapped coil and wires. Any knowledge on plugs that appear good, test OK on a no load test, stll causing these issues? i run parts pretty long.
02/17/2022 09:47
ASHLEY P
If you doubt the plugs, replace them.
02/17/2022 09:56
ASHLEY P
Just make some truth. Lie without lying. Attend church, claim to be spiritual, then mock the Bible and say prayer is "non sense". Falsely accuse me of a few things while you're at it. Dude, you qualify for Brandonhood.
02/17/2022 18:18
FIRSTLAST
I said praying off a pandemic is moronic. It's biological, it's everywhere. May as well go to Mars on the presumption you will pray up a Oxygen / Nitrogen/ CO2 atmosphere so you don't perish in 5 minutes. God gave every last one of you luncheons a Narain abd he told you to use it. What he hell is wrong with using your rational problem solving skills to decode a pandemi virus strain(s) and come up with some science? If we were dealing with leprosy on a covid reproduction rate would you still be squeamish about space, sanitation, and mask / gloves? Yeah..., thought as much.
02/18/2022 09:03
ASHLEY P
Sir, my understanding of science is well advanced of yours. The "vaccine" isn't much of one, and those masks that were mandated by the fearful/communists didn't do anything worth mentioning. Science and logic > firstlast ramblings.
02/18/2022 09:04
ASHLEY P
Why do you and Brandon lie so much?
02/18/2022 18:02
FIRSTLAST
Your degrees? Which University? How many degrees? What is your GPA? Do you know the background on the MRNA development, decades to get to this point?
02/21/2022 09:41
ASHLEY P
Sir, truth does not depend on the speaker of the word, his "degrees", his age, his skin tone, his weight, his height, ect. My claim is that my science understanding is greater (better) than YOUR understanding is based on your ILLOGICAL claims about science. Science IS a method of study, which has an underlying standard of logic.
02/21/2022 22:49
FIRSTLAST
Is this where you got your doctorate?
02/21/2022 22:53
FIRSTLAST
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.
02/21/2022 22:59
FIRSTLAST
I have been in more oceans, more mountains than you I am pretty certain. It does not require a science degree to comprehend what every centennial farmer grasps. We humans have radically altered and d pernently changed this planet, and our future is short. You prove that by way of the science. First you observe and catalog, then analyze why. Where do you do ANY THAT? Instead of inquiry, yiu snapshot square pegs into round holes with youtube nonsense. You would spend your time better on video games. Getting kool-aid intravenous is not science no matter how you color it.
02/22/2022 09:48
ASHLEY P
Then how do you "make truth" or "never lie", yet lie about me often?
02/23/2022 10:49
ASHLEY P
Doctorate? More Doctors come to me for my services than the other way around. Does that make me better than a Doctor? lol (I fixed the axle bearings in a first gen Firebird for a doctor the other day, and gave him tips on the distributor gear oiling mod. He looks me up for advice now. ;) )
02/26/2022 20:54
ASHLEY P
Sir, if you say my youtube links are "nonsense", yet those videos disprove the claims of yourself and "mainstream media", then what does that make your claims? Facts and logic > lies from Firstlast
03/04/2022 13:20
ASHLEY P
Firstlast is a Canadian "minister" who wears blue! WOW. "What is the baseline temperature BEFORE global warming?"
03/14/2022 19:10
FIRSTLAST
Spark plugs. Plus corroded coil wire that's plutonium in two. And then vacuum hoses with open breaches. But 90% was just the dang plugs.
© 1996 - 2022 Classical PONTIAC all rights reserved